Advocacy vs. Zealotry vs. Who Cares?!? Was RE: [NMLUG] Re: Linux Advocacy FAQ is NOT Linux Advocacy Maxim (RobertDelahunt) (Daniel Lark)

[neosad1st at charter.net (Robert)]

On Wednesday 01 September 2004 05:49 pm, "Daniel Lark" <dlark@cukk.org> wrote:

> As one has had the pleasure of being chided for using the supposedly
> derogatory term "M$" and being preached to about the proper way doing
> "advocacy", I think these comments are shallow and very hollow. Let me
> explain myself.
>
> 1. I am big advocate of FOSS. As a consultant, I actively encourage my
> customers to pursue using FOSS wherever feasible. I don't preach the
> evils of Microsoft (or really any vendor for that fact). I do give them
> fair and honest comparisons of what the costs to fulfill their needs
> are. Believe it or not, Microsoft sometimes wins on this.

I agree.

> 2. It has been my experience that some of the Microsoft bashers are some
> of their biggest proponents. I don't know how many times I've heard
> statements like "I wish Redmond would fix this" or "There's got to be a
> better way." They bash FOSS only because they don't understand it.
> However, they have no particular desire to change.

Yes, but in a #nmlug channel, this would not be an issue: supposedly, we're 
all into Linux.

> 3. If I'm on a mailing list, IRC channel, etc. that has Linux, Open
> Source, etc. in its name, I can be reasonably sure that I am dealing
> with people how are of the same mindset. So I call Microsoft Windows
> "Windoze" or "Winblows". So I call Microsoft "M$" or "Micro$oft". I
> expect this from people in these forums. Likewise they should expect it
> from me.

First off, just because everyone is doing it doesn't mean it's "right".  
Secondly, anyone who considers themselves a professional needs to act as 
such.  There are a lot of "new" people out there that think that the way they 
have been all their life is acceptable, and it is not, in fact.  It's mainly 
in delivery of their message, not their message itself.  People need to start 
reading books like "How to win friends and influence people", etc.  I am not 
a perfect adherent to this book or others, but it makes me try to attain a 
loftier goal of harmony with others rather than spit out my opinion not 
caring who hears me.

> 4. I agree with the Advocacy FAQ/HOWTO in dealing with external
> organizations. I do, however, expect that in a amongst internal
> organizations (LUGs, mailing lists, etc.) I can speak my mind however I
> see fit. Microsoft (amongst other entities) would try to seek ways to
> limit speech about their products. The OSS community has been (and
> hopefully always will be) a truly free speech zone. So we bash M$, who
> cares? We bash each other. BSD user bash Linux. Debian users bash RH
> users. In short, life's rough wear a cup!

Yes, it goes on.  I'm military, so I more than understand, and these comments 
do not phase me.  However, just because it's a "cruel world" doesn't mean we 
have to allow it.  We can accept it while striving to change it.

> 5. If I am seeking advocacy, I would seek out things that are expressly
> for this; an IRC channel like #nmlug_advocacy, newsgroups with advocacy
> in their name, etc. I don't like nor appreciate reminding (pestering) me
> of my so called "obligations" are. I cannot and will not accept this.

Yes, that's understandable, but my channel does not have this goal in mind.

> Mr. DeLaHunt, please feel advocate how you feel Linux should be
> advocated. That is your right, and I would fight to the death to support
> that. But understand, kicking people off of an IRC channel for saying
> "Windoze" neither encourages advocacy or maintains decorum. All it shows
> it that "I'm the channel op. If you don't like how I do things I'll kick
> you from the channel." It's kind of hard to buy your form of advocacy
> when your actions discourage free speech.

That's Delahunt, and I don't know what the origin of it is, sadly.
Also, please stop with the assumptions and generalizations.  I have not yet 
kicked anyone off my channel.  I'm asking people to try to abide by this 
loftier goal, but I'm not actively enforcing it to the degree you are 
assuming.  Most of my time is spent "babysitting", as most ops understand.  
However, if I'm going to run a channel (which is the way it is now, unless 
the owners of this mailing list care to take ownership, which I will gladly 
give them), I don't want it ending up like (and pardon the examples, but it 
is all I understand right now) #debian or #gentoo or any other such channel 
that has angered me in the past.  I encourage free speech, but I'm not going 
to put up with the teenager-ish hollow rants.  I'm all for pointing out the 
strengths and weaknesses in any OS, Linux and Microsoft included.  But to 
quote psychological ideas, this is similar to drawing a quarter.  Most 
average people cannot draw on paper what say, a quarter looks like.  However, 
hand them a penny and they easily recognize what it is.

> That's just my $0.04 (adjusted for inflation).
>
> -dan

I appreciate your discussion on this point.

-- 
" ... and are endowed by their CREATOR
with certain unalienable rights ... "
-- Declaration of Independence